Israel. Since it's such a hot topic. ;-) And I am going to mention-- because I really really had a struggle today-- I had Gabe read this to make sure I didn't screw anything up, and I now have instructions to stop being so apologetic for my beliefs. So, if you don't like this, then prove it with a biblical discussion. Look it up! The Bible is opinionated, and it is right!
The statistic is that 90% of churches preach Replacement Theology, if they preach on Israel at all. I do not believe that the church has replaced Israel in God's program. No way.
As I understand it, Israel refers to all Jews worldwide in general, but also to the political state. I don't see how we can include one and exclude the other, in regards to the Biblical promise of blessing? Note: I will include a partial list of "what" Israel refers to in the Bible in my second section on Israel- this is already too big in my head for one post! ;-)
But, "I will bless those which bless thee, and I will curse those who curse thee." Gen 12:3 Is there any other nation or people group in which we are promised curses if we are on the wrong side? A quote that deserves consideration: the "only reason God has not released judgement on America is because we continue to support Israel." Not just be neutral, but support. But our position is changing quickly. (Side note: A really thought-provoking study: God's Wrath in relation to how we treat Israel. Did you know that Hurricane Katrina formed on the exact day the US completed with "assisting" the removal of 8500 Israelis from the Gaza Strip? There are NUMEROUS other examples I would encourage you to examine. We first heard it from Dave Reagan and Bill Koenig at Steeling the Mind '06.)
Take a logical look at the nation itself.
"Given the circumstances surrounding Israel's birth as a nation, and the odds against its survival, Israel should not exist as a nation today. Yet it not only exists, but seems to thrive in spite of its adversaries and in the face of circumstances that defy logic and reason... Not all attribute their military victories to divine assistance, but everyone agrees that the odds for Israel's survival through the turbulent twentieth century have defied all reasonable logic....Why did an unstoppable armada of Syrian tanks bound for Tel Aviv at the start of the Yom Kippur War in 1973, suddenly stop just north of Tiberius and simply wait for the Israeli army to arrive so they could surrender without a fight? When an Israeli tank commander found himself and his men in the middle of a mine field, how was the prayer of one of his men suddenly followed by an unprecedented wind that blew away nearly a foot of topsoil and then just as suddenly stop, revealing the hiding places of thousands of mines so the soldiers could escape unharmed? Why, during the war for independence, did a battalion of Jordanian soldiers approaching the position of a handful of Israeli soldiers defending Mt. Zion without ammunition, suddenly shout "Abraham" and turn and flee? How could three dozen teenagers, survivors of the Holocaust, walk right past a company of Egyptian soldiers in the Negev without being seen?" (Against All Odds)
God wants them there. Let me get past my humanist education and point out that it is their God-given right to exist on that specific piece of property. In actuality, a much larger piece of property, but I'm guessing that just ain't gonna happen until their rightful King returns!
Do not assume I think we should not bless and love everyone else- Of course we should! It is one of our greatest responsibilities! I am not "against" all the rest of the Arab or Palestinian nations. We should pray for all of them! For example, our church supports missionaries in Israel whose main ministry is Palestinians, most of them Muslim and Greek Orthodox. We are accountable to ALL nations. But the promise is attached to Israel!
One of the points made at the conference was that because of our western media, we assume that everyone is the same "culture" or "people group"over there. (Other than Sunnis and Shiites, of course.) But the true Arabs, who are actually a smaller people group that most would assume, are enduring great persecution by the rest of the Palestinians, not to mention the rest of the world. I can't begin to reiterate the list that was given, but I found it discouraging how we refer to them as one group, but we are terribly deficient in our understanding.
Now I am going to get unpleasant.
The Bible is not "nice." When Israel was sent to purge the Promised Land, they were often instructed to kill every man, woman, and child. No regard for "innocent" life. In fact, when they did not do as commanded, it repeatedly came back to bite them in the butt. Revelation states that huge portions of the world's population will perish during the Tribulation. It is not going to be pretty! But it is God's plan!
Respect for innocent life is a theory, not a common practice. Especially in times of war. And Israel is at war- fighting for the right to exist. I don't like death and war, but there's a lot of things I don't like and can do absolutely nothing about. I live in a country which, in practice, believes it's ok to murder babies which are socially inconvenient. Even though I fervently disagree with this, I still live here. We are to be responsible with the abilities given us; to make the difference He inspires us to make. I can't change the fact that "innocent" people will die. But I can support with my prayers and finances the missions who minister in Christ's name.
An odd thought I had- it could be argued from a Biblical perspective that those who pray for the peace of Jerusalem are praying for the destruction of 2/3 of the worlds population. Because before True Peace will come, the false peacemaker must come, and with his false treaty, the wrath of God. But we are still instructed to do so! Psa 122:6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee.
Hermeneutics dictate that how you choose to interpret the Bible makes all the difference in your beliefs. Gabe and I have chosen to educate ourselves under teachers and scholars who interpret the Bible literally. We don't take everything we are taught straight to the bank; many good scholars disagree on the details! If you've ever tried to understand the different legitimate views, much less the crazies (!) you know that it takes a while to prayerfully sort out the details and let the Spirit work discernment. We are on a long road, but so excited to be here, making progress step by step as He leads us.
Isa 46:9-13Remember the former things of old, For I [am] God, and [there is] no other; [I am] God, and [there is] none like Me, Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times [things] that are not [yet] done, Saying, 'My counsel shall stand, And I will do all My pleasure,' ... Indeed I have spoken [it;] I will also bring it to pass. I have purposed [it;] I will also do it... I bring My righteousness near, it shall not be far off; My salvation shall not linger. And I will place salvation in Zion, For Israel My glory.
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9 comments:
I have no argument just a comment. I truly enjoy reading what you are so passionate about. I can here the sincerity and excitement in your writing that you get to share with others what you are learning. Although I don't understand all of it...I am learning.
Understanding the bible is proving to be very difficult for me. It actually makes me feel quite dumb and makes me realize how little I actually know about God, the past and the bible teachings. But through your writing and bible study I am learning and that is what is important to me. Thank you and please keep sharing.
Lynn! I want you to know that I feel that way too! You are not dumb, and we will never be done learning about Him! If you ever have any questions, please ask, because that helps me to learn too!
Your comment is an answer to prayer, thank you for being a blessing!
Good post, and I agree with many of your thoughts. But I don't think you've convinced me yet that the Biblical promises concerning Israel apply to more than just the Jewish people. If you're going to apply them to the country as a whole, then you need to have answers for some extra questions:
- the Abrahamic covenant was originally given to a people group, because the country Israel didn't exist at the time. Do you see something in scripture that suggests the promise would also apply to a future country? If so, would it be any country that mankind happened to set up in the right region with the right name, or do you see some qualifications?
- did God really intend for the Abrahamic covenant to include people who are not descendents of Abraham? Remember, about 20% of the current country of Israel is non-Jewish.
- when Israel was given permanent ownership of the land, God also told them that their right to occupy it was conditional, based on their obedience to Him. History shows that He meant what He said. Is that part of the covenant still in effect? Is Israel so obedient today that God could't justly allow them to be conquered once again?
- and, if that part of the covenant still applies, how would we know whether to come to Israel's military defense, knowing we could be fighting against God's discipline?
I'm not trying to be difficult or argumentative - I just think that these are some of the questions that come up when you say the biblical Israel is the same as the 21st century nation.
Quick first thought...
In every relationship on earth that I an think of, it is rarely a blessing to just sit there while someone self destructs. Or support them in their self destruction. Or support them as they harm others.
How is giving Israel permission to do anything they want "blessing them"?
What exactly does it mean to bless them? Can you bless them as you would bless your child, your spouse, your friends, etc - that is to be a friend, but one who speaks wisdom & encouragement and corrects you when you are wrong.
Also, I would love to hear more about "literal interpretation". I really don't understand how some verses are understood to be literal commands to us today, but other things are not. How do you differentiate?
Thanks for explaining yourself, I enjoyed reading it & hope we can talk about it more.
Good questions! Thank You!
While I am working on them (many of the answers kinda tie into the post that I was originally going to write from the conference speakers) I have a few clarifications to ask.
Kari, what do you mean when you refer to Israel self-destructing? And about giving them permission to do whatever they want? I just need a couple of examples because I am not sure of a point when they've been given that permission.
Thanks!
Why do they need OUR permission to do anything? I think we should support them because they are God's chosen people. (Lev 26:12) God was talking to a people group, who were given a piece of land. (Gen 15:18) God gave it to them, and they have let some of it go (some by force, some by neglect). There are non-Jews living in the land, but they are not subject to the covenants given to "Israel".
Just my 2 pennies.
Hee hee- Gabe made me laugh.
Lest I get ahead of myself, that is kinda one of the points of my coming post on the Israel speakers - that we don't need to give them permission to do anything. They are gonna do it, and the World will come against them for it (as is prophesied.)
But I don't want to get ahead of myself! *grin*
I did not mean they need our permission for anything, but that we seem to give our approval for things & actions that are unbiblical & immoral.
I guess the real question is - what does it mean to bless Israel? Or support Israel?
My point is that to be a true blessing & to support them, I would envision it more like a friendship. Where one offers support but also will "correct" their friend when they seem them being led astray.
Theoretically, if Israel embarked on a path to slaughter all Palestinians in their country, how would we as Christians "support" them at that point? What would that look like?
You pointed out the US helping remove Israeli's from Gaza. This could be seen as supportive because it is improving the quality of life for the majority of the Israeli citizens.
The majority of Israelis/Jews are very willing to give up the west bank & gaza strip in exchange for possible peace. Its a very small radical minority that is obsessed with getting all the land back.
So... I am going to address most of these questions in the next post, to make it easier to read instead of always coming back to the comments.
But I did want to pick up on your point Kari, that Israel wants peace. They do! That's why their humanist leaders are always willing to come back to the table, hoping "this time" it will work and why I don't think we have to worry about the theory of them slaughtering all the Palestinians. And no, I don't believe "supporting" them gives them license to dominate the middle east. But they aren't trying to, sooo....
Anyway - the problem is not Israel, it is the palestinians and their hatred of Israel. Their goal is not the sharing of land between Israel and Palestine. It is the destruction of Israel, as they repeatedly state over and over - "Death to Israel!" and their use of deceptive diplomacy to gain bits and pieces. They don't want peace. They want Israel wiped off the map.
This is an example of how the media skews our perspective - Anytime the Middle East is brought up, Israel seems like the "bad guy" and the poor palestinians who don't have any land. (Which they do, it's called Jordan :-), formed in 1922 by taking 77% of the Palestinian Mandate, intended for the Jews by the Balfour Declaration, to create an Arab state.) But they want Israel.
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