Now, because what I would love to help you to do, I also want to do: Challenge my beliefs. Why do I believe what I believe? How do I know that I know that I know? Because this is how faith grows, through testing. Let's grow, shall we? Grab a cup of coffee and a little chunk of dark chocolate, and settle in-- this is going to be good!
Why don't we start by working through what was discussed:
"Can I propose another option?"
Nope, once someone votes, I can't change it other than to delete it. Sorry.
He says no man will know the day or time. I don't know and I don't worry about it.
Let's look at these verses in context:
Matthew 24:36 "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." This is also repeated in Matthew 25:13 and Mark 13:32. But let's add a little more:
Matt 24:42-44 "Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming. But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect."
So it says. But it also says this:
1Th 5:1- 1Th 5:5 "Now, brothers, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. But you, brothers, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief. You are all sons of the light and sons of the day. We do not belong to the night or to the darkness."
Read it again and again, until you get it. The day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night for those who are in darkness; but we are not in darkness! We are sons of the light and the day! What joy! We can know, we can be watchful and not taken by surprise!!! If this doesn't blow your mind, ask Him to give you a fresh understanding!
We should never not be looking for it. Jesus told of the parable of the bridegroom who didn't recognize those who weren't prepared.
Matthew 25 "Then the kingdom of heaven shall be likened to ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. 2 Now five of them were wise, and five were foolish. 3 Those who were foolish took their lamps and took no oil with them, 4 but the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. 5 But while the bridegroom was delayed, they all slumbered and slept.
6 "And at midnight a cry was heard: 'Behold, the bridegroom is coming; go out to meet him!' 7 Then all those virgins arose and trimmed their lamps. 8 And the foolish said to the wise, 'Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.' 9 But the wise answered, saying, 'No, lest there should not be enough for us and you; but go rather to those who sell, and buy for yourselves.' 10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding; and the door was shut.
11 "Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, 'Lord, Lord, open to us!' 12 But he answered and said, 'Assuredly, I say to you, I do not know you.'
13 "Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour in which the Son of Man is coming.
There is significance to 'no man knows the day or the hour'
Great significance, in my opinion: It references one of the Feasts of Israel. No one knew the day nor the hour when the feast would start because it depended upon the rising of the new moon. The Hebrews would have men watching at all hours to make sure they didn't miss it!
We need to be studying what His word says and constantly looking.
Oh, the references I can give for that! I will try to limit myself!
Act 17:11 Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.
1Ch 12:32 And of the children of Issachar, [which were men] that had understanding of the times, to know what Israel ought to do; the heads of them [were] two hundred; and all their brethren [were] at their commandment.
2Ti 3:16-17
All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.
Hbr 4:12 For the word of God [is] living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Eph 6:14- Eph 6:17
Stand therefore, having girded your waist with truth, having put on the breastplate of righteousness, and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one. And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God;
Here is what I base my belief's on: Matthew 6:34 Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.
This is a fantastic verse regarding our faith and what we should be concerned about-- Let's look at the whole passage.
Mat 6:25- Mat 6:34
"Therefore I say to you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink; nor about your body, what you will put on. Is not life more than food and the body more than clothing? Look at the birds of the air, for they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they? Which of you by worrying can add one cubit to his stature? So why do you worry about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin; and yet I say to you that even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.Now if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today is, and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will He not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? Therefore do not worry, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?' For after all these things the Gentiles seek. For your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things. But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you. Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about its own things. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble."
My response to the use of this verse as a reason not to worry? Great verse, we shouldn't worry. Got it.
But let's look closer! Worry, by definition: to torment oneself, fret, anxieties, trouble, plague, uneasiness. By definition, I am absolutely not worrying about Christ's coming when I study it! Not in the least! I am so excited, so filled with joy that I can hardly contain it! Thinking that we might be mere months, weeks, days or hours away from meeting face to face my King so overflows my heart that I cannot help but pray, "Maranantha Lord JESUS! Come quickly!!!" In all truth, I have been known to pray "Lord, come soon, please, if you would, come now! I want to be with you!"
I also find the need to include this statement, because I believe it was given to me to say.
"Any verse that I am claiming as reason not to do what the whole of Scripture clearly instructs, I would need to prayerfully examine how the truth of that verse crosses over into every area of my life. If it did not ring true to my actively visible testimony, I am not using the verse as a testament of faith; rather, it is my flimsy excuse."
Now, more fun stuff that I just can't help but include!!!
This one shocked me as I was reading: It doesn't get much clearer.
1Th 5:19- 1Th 5:22
Do not put out the Spirit's fire;
do not treat prophecies with contempt.
Test everything. Hold on to the good.
Avoid every kind of evil.
Luke 19:41-44 "As he approached Jerusalem and saw the city, he wept over it and said, “If you, even you, had only known on this day what would bring you peace–but now it is hidden from your eyes. The days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment against you and encircle you and hem you in on every side. They will dash you to the ground, you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of God's coming to you.”
Christ pronounced judgement because Israel did not know "this thy day;" He held them accountable to know the prophecies, specifically Daniel 9!
2Ti 4:8
Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day–and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing.
This one better get your heart excited, for if we long for His appearing, it is stored up for us a crown of righteousness in heaven!!! But, as a word of caution, as Paul writes, crowns and rewards can be lost, so we need to be persistent in our longing :-)
Revelation 3:14 "And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write,
'These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God: 15 "I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. 16 So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth. 17 Because you say, 'I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing'--and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked-- I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see. 19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent. 20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me. 21 To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne. "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches."'"
This is one of the Scriptures that God used to really light a fire under me-- more than anything I do not want to be nauseating to the Lord my God. I want to be useful, I want the small amount of time I am granted to count, not for my own praise or honor, but solely for His glory and the furthering of His kingdom.
I hope this has been fun for you, because it sure was a blast for me!!! What blessings we receive when we search the Word for the Truth! Thank you, Father, for this opportunity. I pray that it brings everyone who reads it closer to You, and that You exceedingly bless any further study that this encourages.
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16 comments:
Exactly! I coulnt have said it any better. :) Im so glad you posted this. I didnt mean to be anonymous yesterday :( sorry. But you said exactly what I would have gone into more detail yesterday. And a few steps further!!
Lindsey :)
As you said;
We all have the individual personal “right” decisions to make, and they differ from one to another.
Especially when you insert the God factor… and doing what is “right” in His will for our lives.
I am saying that no man knows or will ever know. What I get from this is that not to consume yourself with the day, time or way he is going to come, just be ready.
Pre-trib, post-trib, does it matter? Can we do anything about it? Who will know the mind of God. I am ready regardless of when he comes.
To dwell:
1. To remain for a time
2. To live as a resident
3. To keep the attention directed
4. To speak or write insistently
No one will ever know the full truth until we are with God. We need to apply the teachings to our lives and this may differ from person to person as it does from Church to Church.
I leave you with this:
http://www.the-churchofchrist.com/end_times/the_tribulation_and_the_thousand_year_reign.htm
After reading the article, which I couldn't actually link to, but found round-about-- let's see if it works this way...
http://the-churchofchrist.com/end_times/the_tribulation_and_the_thousand_year_reign.htm
Amy, If you want to answer my poll, and you believe what this article teaches, you would not be classified as "not worrying about it;" your beliefs are referred to as amillenialism. The loose allegorization of scripture that does not believe in the literal 1000 year reign of CHRIST on the EARTH. And that's fine. I would just encourage you to study up on what you believe!
A question I do have after reading that article-- In the midst of many referrences I disagree with, I want to know what do they do with Israel? If one believes as I do, a more literal understanding of scripture, there is a clear and definite future for Israel in God's end game, and that article does not explain or address this in any way. In fact, it often refers to the church when scripture is pointing to Israel, not the church.
A helpful referrence to understanding Israel is Daniel 9:23-27
So my link didn't work either.
If you want to read the article, try this:
http://www.the-churchofchrist.com/end_times
and then click on the "end time/ tribulation" choice.
Just so it's clear: I disagree with nearly everything this article teaches. I would love to prove my points, but it is a huge article to post on a blog! Maybe piece by piece....
Sorry, you click on the "The Tribulation and Thousand Year Reign" option.
My bad! :-)
I do not believe in this article, I thought it was an interesting interpretation and shows there are other interpretations out there.
I am very well studied on what I believe and continue to believe that it is not my place to worry and fret over the end times but instead worry about my heart and soul. I am not concerned if I need to go through tribulation or not. I am ready for whatever God throws at me.
It makes a difference if we are here for the tribulation. God has shown that He takes His people out before the world is judged (just one example Noah) So I would be concerned if I was going through it or not. To me it would mean I wasent trully saved. "We need to take scripture for what it says, not for what we want it to say" I think it has been clearly put. With scripture to back it up.
hmmmm....I'm just reading through the comments (I didn't look up the article though), but from what I read, I think everyone is right. I believe God is still coming (hasn't yet come!) and it's an interesting conversation and interesting to read up on, but we also aren't supposed to dwell entirely upon it....the only thing god cares about is our hearts and that we remain ready at any hour. We are to live with our entire life focused on him and praising and serving him, but I don't believe it should be entirely focused on his return. I think that if someone were to focus primarily on that one aspect, they would be missing out on so much more.
Sure Joy-- your point is perfectly correct.
My point is that in our growth in Christ, we are to know Scripture. We are to know and understand and "be ready to give defense" for what, how, and why we believe.
Of course I agree that we can't just focus on His return, but I do believe, based on 2 Timothy 4:8, that He cares whether or not we are looking forward to it. That so much of our blessing comes from studying the Word, and knowing the Word is how we know Him!
So, put the two points together, and our point would be that we should not study just one part of the Bible, but the whole. And this Includes, not Excludes, knowing the hows and whens of His return!
I was thinking today about the parable of the ten virgins and what exactly the oil in the lamps represented.
The foolish virgin's mistake was in not keepnig their lamp full. ALL of the virgins fell asleep. But some had extra oil and some did not.
None of the virgins knew when to expect the bridegroom. They were sleeping, not out scouring the countryside for him. They knew he would arrive and it was simply their job to be ready with their lamps.
The crux of the verses are what the lamps & oil symbolize. It seems more likely to me that the oil would represent Christ or the Holy Spirit in our lives who cause our flame/lamp to burn brightly.
I think being prepared for Christ's coming means that the Holy Spirit & Christ are fueling your lamp/life and that you do not get burned out or bored and give up before he arrives.
I don't think this verse supports the notion that we should be "constantly looking" for his coming. The command "watch" could mean "watch your lamp, keep it burning!" Mostly, just be ready because it will be a surprise.
I would argue that keeping your relationship with Christ central to your life is how we should be "prepared".
Anyways, that parable intrigued me, so I was thinking about it a bunch while I stained the deck this afternoon. blech.
(ps. I would love to comment on many of the verses you list, just because I tend to look at/interpret them slightly differently. Unfortunately, time is an issue...)
Actually, what I really wanted to know about that parable was why there were 10 virgins waiting for the bridegroom. Was this somesort of Jewish tradition? What exactly did it symbolize in the marriage ceremony?
Since the bridegroom is supposed to be Jesus and the church his bride, I am pretty sure he was condoning polygamy with this parable.
I do need to clarify something here. I was misquoted, and I don't want anyone thinking I am a hypocrite because my words were taken out of context.
Here's the quote: "We all have the individual personal “right” decisions to make, and they differ from one to another.
Especially when you insert the God factor… and doing what is “right” in His will for our lives."
I said this in regard to an article that was posted about breast cancer and each person ability to make their own treatment/prevention decisions. Not about hermeneutics or about scripture. While it can be read that way, it is not what I was talking about, and therefore it is not accurate.
I just wanted to clarify that I was totally kidding about the polygamy. I should have added a smiley face. : )
Good Idea Kari :-)
I forget that not everyone here knows me, and many don't know me well enough to understand my idiosyncrasies!
Wait, so everyone has the right to make personal decisions and apply God's will for themselves personally in some things but not in others?
Just because it was a different subject does not mean it doesn't apply.
Sure, and you can say that all day long. But if you are using my words, on my blog, I get to clarify what I was talking about.
In this case, I would have said it differently, especially without quotations, and in my opinion, which I am allowed to have(!) I say I don't want it applied like that.
And I disagree, if it a different subject, a quote is not always applicable. If you want to say it, then say it yourself.
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